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	<title>Glencora Borradaile &#187; postdoc</title>
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	<link>http://www.glencora.org</link>
	<description>Assistant Professor, School of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science, Oregon State University</description>
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		<title>Postdoc after postdoc after postdoc?</title>
		<link>http://www.glencora.org/silent-glen-speaks/postdoc-after-postdoc-after-postdoc/</link>
		<comments>http://www.glencora.org/silent-glen-speaks/postdoc-after-postdoc-after-postdoc/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:13:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Glencora</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Silent Glen Speaks]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[theory]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[postdoc]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[tcs]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.glencora.org/?p=256</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There&#8217;s talk of postdocking* in the air &#8211; for one, Jonathan Katz posted about how to better match recent grads to postdoc positions. It looks like this year&#8217;s academic-job market is even worse than last and that postdocs might just fill in the gap for a year or two for some people &#8211; including those that are [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s talk of postdocking* in the air &#8211; for one, Jonathan Katz <a href="http://jonkatz.wordpress.com/2009/11/15/inefficiencies-in-the-postdoc-market/">posted</a> about how to better match recent grads to postdoc positions. It looks like this year&#8217;s academic-job market is even worse than last and that postdocs might just fill in the gap for a year or two for some people &#8211; including those that are currently postdocking.  Hearing such things make me cringe, but not because I think postdocs shouldn&#8217;t exist.  I am very thankful for my 20 months spent as a postdoc.  I don&#8217;t think I became a stronger job applicant in that time, but I do think that I became more confident in that time.</p>
<p>In the agonizing months** between interview and job offer at Oregon State University, I gave a lot of thought to &#8220;what do I do if I don&#8217;t get an academic job?&#8221;  I had the option of staying on as a postdoc through summer 2010 &#8211; an option that made me cringe.  &#8221;If I stay as a postdoc and next year&#8217;s market is terrible and then take another postdoc &#8230; where does the cycle end?&#8221;</p>
<p>I have many friends in the biosciences where two 3+ year postdocs is the norm.  One has started a blog devoted to advocacy for postdocs; <a href="http://scienceadvocacy.org/Blog/2009/11/15/say-no-to-the-second-post-doc/">a recent post</a> encourages the cycle of postdocing to end.  I worry that CS could &#8220;get worse&#8221; and end up like bio.  I hope that the competition offered by industry will help keep the postdocking length down.  But Ph.D. enrollment is going up &#8211; where are these students supposed to go?  Does anyone know if there are stats on the average postdoc length in computer science?</p>
<p>* I officially propose postdocking as the verbal of postdoc much like trafficking to traffic.<br />
** Days became months due to budget hoop-jumping.</p>
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		<title>How to find a postdoc</title>
		<link>http://www.glencora.org/silent-glen-speaks/how-to-find-a-postdoc/</link>
		<comments>http://www.glencora.org/silent-glen-speaks/how-to-find-a-postdoc/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 01:13:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Glencora</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Silent Glen Speaks]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[theory]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[advice]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[grad students]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[postdoc]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[tcs]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.glencora.org/?p=198</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While I hardly think I should be doling out advice &#8230; In algorithms, there have been a lot of postdoc positions advertising on the two main email lists, TheoryNT and dmanet.  In my experience, many of the positions are in Europe.  I&#8217;ve found that a lot of postdoc&#8217;s get their position by word of mouth. [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I hardly think I should be doling out advice &#8230;</p>
<p>In algorithms, there have been a lot of postdoc positions advertising on the two main email lists, <a href="http://listserv.nodak.edu/archives/theorynt.html">TheoryNT</a> and <a href="http://www.zaik.uni-koeln.de/AFS/publications/dmanet/">dmanet</a>.  In my experience, many of the positions are in Europe.  I&#8217;ve found that a lot of postdoc&#8217;s get their position by word of mouth.</p>
<p>I think, by far, the best thing is to get a postdoctoral fellowship.  Freedom!  It seems NSF doesn&#8217;t have a fellowship program for people in computer science.  (Is that actually true?) But I have seen (and ignored, as I am not an American citizen) plenty of postdoc fellowship programs for Americans.  If you aren&#8217;t American, try your home country.  NSERC has great fellowships for Canadians that you can take out of the country if you got your Ph.D. in Canada and is tax-free if you take it to McGill.  The short of it is, if you have a fellowship you have the academic freedom to study what you want to study.  You can work with whoever you want, whether or not they have a research grant to pay a postdoc.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve also thought that if you plan far enough in advance you could contact someone you really want to work with and convince them to write a grant with your help that includes funding for a postdoc.  Any thoughts of whether that would work?  I know NSF now asks for an &#8220;advising plan&#8221; when requesting funds for a postdoc salary.  Would having the potential postdoc involved in the writing process help?</p>
<p>And there are schools and departments that have their own postdoc program &#8211; I think U. Penn and U. Toronto do.</p>
<p>Any other suggestions?</p>
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